tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post906185514586723640..comments2024-01-11T18:39:50.665+00:00Comments on Painting With Shadows: New weapon for an old adversaryKim Ayreshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02656677501116622953noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-83352904147118113612007-08-14T13:07:00.000+01:002007-08-14T13:07:00.000+01:00Galorealla - welcome to my ramblings - thank you f...Galorealla - welcome to my ramblings - thank you for taking the time to visit and comment. <BR/><BR/>For me, the fundamental question that is so rarely ever asked is "WHY do we overeat?"<BR/><BR/>An answer like "greed" is simplistic and actually answers nothing. You then have to ask "Why are we greedy?". Then, and only then, can we even begin to make a start at looking at the multiple and complex reasons why different people overeat.<BR/><BR/>When people think they can adopt a moral high ground by just bandying the word "greed" about, I feel the deepest pity at their ignorance.Kim Ayreshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02656677501116622953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-70072758668292553322007-08-12T12:41:00.000+01:002007-08-12T12:41:00.000+01:00Hi Kim,After reading this post and the comments, I...Hi Kim,<BR/><BR/>After reading this post and the comments, I felt I had to add something. <BR/><BR/>Shebah's comments "Obesity is not an illness or addiction"<BR/><BR/>If what she believes is true then do we have a nation that is quite alarmingly becoming a nation of greedy people by choice? <BR/><BR/>I think not. So, why is it on the increase? People do not just decide one day "hey I am going to start to over eat and make myself fat". It just does not happen. Lets be honest our eating habits as a nation have been subtly changing for years. As you say Kim, Obesity is a very complex issue with many contributing factors. These are very different for each individual. The common thread is the type of food we eat. We have changed from a nation that cooked and created food each day from freshly bought ingredients, to a nation of fast food lovers. This is not just aimed at the likes of McDonald's either. Our whole eating habits have changed, we can now buy food ready prepared to just bang in the microwave or oven and hey presto its ready in minutes. The convenience food or TV dinner is now a way of life for us. We are now aware of course that it is loaded with fat, sugar, salt and anything else they care to throw in. Such is the way of the modern world. Constraints are put on our time due to work and family. Gone are the days when one parent worked and the other stayed home to care for the family. It is a necessity of life for both parents to work to pay the bills and give the family the lifestyle they want. This is where the convenience food fits in. If like me you don't get in the house until 6.00-6.30, you really don't want to start cooking something that you won't be able to eat until 9.00pm. <BR/><BR/>It is a fact that we are now exposed to more foods than our parents or grandparents ever were and more generous portions. Eating out is not a luxury anymore it is a way of life and it is cheap, sometimes cheaper than cooking yourself. The food we eat causes chemical changes in our body, this has been proven by scientific study. The most interesting thing I have read about in the media, is where some overweight people do not know when they are full. They lose the ability to read the bodies signals that tell them when they have had enough to eat. Is this a chemical change caused by the type of food we eat? Who knows? <BR/><BR/>What Carole said rang a bell with me. We were hungry as kids, not starving I grant you, but on a tight budget with 6 kids to feed, there were no treats, just enough food to tide you over to the next meal. This didn't stop my mother from being overweight. She came from a family of short overweight people. My father on the other hand came from a family of stringy thin tall people, with not enough meat on them to feed next doors cat. So where did that leave us 6 kids. We inherited both sets of genes. Half of us struggle with our weight and the other half don't. I never used to. I was always able to eat what I wanted and stay thin. But things change, I changed my job to an office job, sitting down all day and one day thought "cripes what's going on here then a spare tyre". I am approaching middle age and its harder to keep off. I have food cravings (chocolate is my demon). I had a lot of help earlier this year, the most stressful of my life and hey presto the weight dropped off. A combination of food tasting like chaff and running 4 times a week. The big question is how do I keep it off. Will my running be enough?<BR/><BR/>It's a complex and controversial issue to say the least, but to be unfeeling and harsh does not help anyone. Yes it does help to have self control but there are other factors contributing. This is why it is now a national problem and not just a personal issue for a few unlucky people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-36430433140538831432007-08-11T02:07:00.000+01:002007-08-11T02:07:00.000+01:00I understand, Kim. I tend to think like Mary - kn...I understand, Kim. I tend to think like Mary - knowing that the body has a preferred weight. <BR/><BR/>Just lately, cigarettes have been looking delicious. I dare not cave in and give up 5.5 years of non-smoking work I've done.Jupiter's Girlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05071415384252770418noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-19384460472097494062007-08-09T23:59:00.000+01:002007-08-09T23:59:00.000+01:00sorry kim.. that was me. (the second anon comment)...sorry kim.. that was me. (the second anon comment)sarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04668939110660039602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-30273406587264219782007-08-09T16:33:00.000+01:002007-08-09T16:33:00.000+01:00I know I haven't replied to everyone in this post,...I know I haven't replied to everyone in this post, but I appreciate your comments. Your contributions I'm sure will chime with other readers.<BR/><BR/>Carole - that pulled at my heart. coarse and uncaring comments, especialy when we are young, can have such long reaching effects<BR/><BR/>Anonymouses - I don't know whether both are from the same person or not. Thank you (both?) for taking the time to comment. I would ask if, in future, you can leave a name or initial letter (doesn't have to be your real one, just so long as it's consistent), so i can tell one anon comment from another. ThanksKim Ayreshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02656677501116622953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-7412690912376480342007-08-09T02:43:00.000+01:002007-08-09T02:43:00.000+01:00i don't know why people are so willing to see the ...i don't know why people are so willing to see the reverse of this (anorexic/bulimic) as a medical condition.. but they see overeating as plain greed.<BR/><BR/>frankly, it's always irritated me.<BR/><BR/>fat people are the last acceptable scape goat for hate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-68434940184182154802007-08-08T23:24:00.000+01:002007-08-08T23:24:00.000+01:00I know those feelings only too well. For most of ...I know those feelings only too well. For most of my life I could eat what I liked and remained skinny. Then in 1979 I married MTL and found happiness and started to show when I had indulged and since then it has been a battle. Just recently I have given up my nightly 4 squares of chocolate. It's easier not to taste it. I am winning the war but it is a constant battle. I do believe- for all sorts of reasons - it's worth it. Stick with it Kim and I'll take strength from your example.Pathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01529798893653033970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-604316788463677192007-08-08T22:23:00.000+01:002007-08-08T22:23:00.000+01:00The visual image of fighting the dragon with a too...The visual image of fighting the dragon with a toothpick was quite apt, Kim. Some days it feels exactly like that!Sayrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16350593991157139017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-18898117117383049802007-08-08T22:20:00.000+01:002007-08-08T22:20:00.000+01:00Kim wrote (beautifully, I might add), "I’m mournin...Kim wrote (beautifully, I might add), "I’m mourning the fact that I cannot just have the scone, enjoy it, and then stop, feeling satisfied."<BR/><BR/>You are a braver, stronger person than I, o bearded one. I don't have the strength (yet) to face the mourning.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-67709290092441294582007-08-08T18:00:00.000+01:002007-08-08T18:00:00.000+01:00I read this post before anyone commented and chose...I read this post before anyone commented and chose not to comment because I think it is particularly painful. And then Shebah came along and all my good resolve went right out the window. <BR/><BR/>I remember that as a little one, there was rarely enough food in the house to feed all the urchins my folks hatched so I was in a constant state of hunger. One time we got to go to the grandparents house and grandma fixed the best meal I had eaten in my five or so years. And I took a second helping and was in the process of gobbling it down when my grandpa thundered, "You are such a greedy little pig, Carole. Get away from the table. And you may not have any more food." <BR/><BR/>I was so ashamed of my greediness then. Embarrassed and ashamed. And now my best time to eat food is when no one is around and they can't see me "pig" down my food. I weigh between 127 and 145 pounds on any given year, but now that I am 53, I think my grandpa is wrong. I think I was hungry and not greedy, but I still like eating alone.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03828426520214270655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-2062817623466694722007-08-08T13:14:00.000+01:002007-08-08T13:14:00.000+01:00FMC - I do know from whence you come :)My beef isn...FMC - I do know from whence you come :)<BR/><BR/>My beef isn't with you - you do know the difference between habit and addiction, laziness and compulsion, casual desire and chemical imbalance.<BR/><BR/>There is great truth in what you say - the essence of where we both come from is more or less the same - if you want something enough, you can find a way of achieving it.<BR/><BR/>What I am very aware of is that there are multiple forces acting on every desire. We can want to be slimmer, fitter, healthier, but our subconscious is very good at sabotaging our efforts. <BR/><BR/>If we are to succeed in the long term we have to discover what other motivations are going on in the background.<BR/><BR/>From self loathing, to fear of interaction, to depression, to food associations set up in childhood, to chemical reactions in the brain, to influence by powerful marketing messages. If we don't take these things into consideration, then we have far less chance of success.<BR/><BR/>I'm sure you know the stats as well as I do - that between 95% and 98% of people who go on a diet put all the weight back on within 2 years, and most of them put on more than they lost.<BR/><BR/>All I've been trying to say, right from the start, is that it is complex and difficult, and cannot be summed up and dismissed in a single, inadequate, misleading word like "greed", which actually means nothing. <BR/><BR/>I greatly admire your ability to focus in on what you want and stick with it, no matter what.<BR/><BR/>I don't have that, so have to develop other strategies. And I believe there are a lot of people like me. <BR/><BR/>As a person who is prepared to endure extreme pain and discomfort to achieve what you want, I can understand your impatience with people who are a bit more hesitant to put themselves through the mill.<BR/><BR/>Our approaches are different, but our core beliefs are not dissimilarKim Ayreshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02656677501116622953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-3364959077399782222007-08-08T12:05:00.000+01:002007-08-08T12:05:00.000+01:00Some years back I heard a radio program about a ma...Some years back I heard a radio program about a man who had been adopted at the age of two weeks. It turned out that he had a twin who was also adopted at roughly the same age. Both men ended up in loving homes and were reunited in their thirties. The twin being interviewed said that his brother was, like himself, overweight. Both of them grew up with people who were of normal weight. They ate their food, shared their lifestyles. But they were overweight. <BR/><BR/>Obesity is a complex issue. People don't get fat just because they are greedy and don't care about their health or appearance. As for overeating as an addiction, there is scientific evidence to back up the claim that the brains of overeaters have fewer dopamine receptors than the brains of people with normal eating habits. Which explains why overeaters go for carbohydrate and fat-rich foods just like junkies go for cocaine or heroin. If you are interested, Dr G K Wang, an expert on addictive behaviors trained at Johns Hopkins University, did several studies on this very issue.<BR/><BR/>There are psychological, medical and genetic factors behind overeating. And yet the assumption is that fat people need a kick in the butt, tough love, or some good, honest advice. They need much more than that.Mary Witzlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06458299046574564155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-8897650403982571042007-08-08T11:05:00.000+01:002007-08-08T11:05:00.000+01:00You could be right Kim, certainly I don't understa...You could be right Kim, certainly I don't understand how a person can continue to over eat and grow heavier if the gaining weight is what makes them unhappy. I don't doubt it is complex in some cases, but neither do I doubt it is not complex in others. (I'm thinking of my mother here so bear with me-she just likes to eat food that she knows is bad for her)<BR/> I do believe the solution to weight gain and loss lies in everyone's own hands and that difficult as that might be to accept, EVERONE can change habits and addictions if they are willing to try-and not just talk about trying.<BR/>I might come across as high handed sometimes, but I also recognise that I am a gung-ho type and don't always get it that people might be that bit more fragile. For me any kind of challange, be it giving up smoking, training for a marathon, going and getting battered in Memnoch's class, shit even my work, it's like a battle cry goes off and I throw everything behind it. I"m inclined to forget others might need a more gentle route.<BR/>That is why I have always though your own battle with weight so admirable, even on the weeks you gained, I knew you'd redouble your efforts the following week and lose it. You pitched everything into it and I get that.<BR/>I don't want you to think I come in here and belittle people struggling, Because I try not to, but we are all very different and if I am too Sergeant Major-ish I do apologise. You know I'll never change, but as a gal who also pitches everything into a decision I hope you know from whence I come.fatmammycathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12307960277363243051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-17533741774213327072007-08-08T10:28:00.000+01:002007-08-08T10:28:00.000+01:00I have never said that overeating is down to one t...I have never said that overeating is down to one thing. It is a complex thing with multiple causes - many of them are tied in emotional, mental, physical and self-esteem issues. "Greed" is a simplistic blanket word that means nothing.<BR/><BR/>You come here, stomp your feet, telling us all that you are so right and then trounce out saying you'll now leave the discussion. The simple fact is, Shebah, you have no idea what you are talking about. <BR/><BR/>You have no idea about the difference between desire and compulsion. <BR/><BR/>You care not about the multiple reasons WHY people will overeat. You only care that your vision of the world is the right one.<BR/><BR/>Your single, linear view of the world will solve nothing because overeating is a far more complex thing than simple greed. <BR/><BR/>As you are not open to accepting that statement, you cannot learn and grow and see beyond your simplistic view of the universe.<BR/><BR/>I am more than happy to debate the complexities of the world and life, but I can't debate with someone who has such a narrow view of the human condition and refuses to believe there is more to it than that.Kim Ayreshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02656677501116622953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-25872169040495493462007-08-08T10:11:00.000+01:002007-08-08T10:11:00.000+01:00Sorry, Kim to disagree - overeating is not an addi...Sorry, Kim to disagree - overeating is not an addiction and it cannot justifiably be compared to alcohol or drug addiction. Alcohol and drugs cause chemical changes in the brain which lead to addiction (though even this is not an overnight happening, it does take some time and application). You could become addicted to a food which contained a certain drug, i.e.the coco leaf or bethel nut, but not in a blanket way to all food, tomatoes, milk, eggs?. Food is only a word for fuel. People overeat because they enjoy it. You can choose not to have a second helping, and you can choose to eat a smaller helping; but conversely, you can also choose to have three helpings, because it's so delicious and you just want to stuff more down. We all have our moments of self indulgence, but most of us want to stay healthy, fit and well, and look good, so we exercise and eat enough for our body type. But I guess it's quite comforting to apply various labels to exhonerate us from our greed. <BR/>If you believe you are addicted to food, tell me honestly, do you long for five helpings of brussels sprouts, beetroot, tripe, jellied eels? Or is it selective addiction? I will now bow out of this discussion as I don't think you welcome opposing views.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-29623040411088366172007-08-08T02:45:00.000+01:002007-08-08T02:45:00.000+01:00nice toof, by the way..nice toof, by the way..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-36562533113394571812007-08-08T02:44:00.000+01:002007-08-08T02:44:00.000+01:00i think my relationship with food can be summed up...i think my relationship with food can be summed up like this:<BR/><BR/>i'm as addicted to foodstuff as if it's crack or heroine, but unfortunately, i cannot live without it (food). it's not like i can go cold turkey or wean myself off of FOOD. they don't make "foodadone"..<BR/><BR/>life's a bitch.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-49159756186053804572007-08-07T21:03:00.000+01:002007-08-07T21:03:00.000+01:00I do want to say, Shebah, that I am truly sorry fo...I do want to say, Shebah, that I am truly sorry for the death of your friend, and I can understand why you feel sensitive about this.<BR/><BR/>But if he did what you say he did, then he was suffering some kind of serious mental health, or physical problem, whether you knew it or not. No one overeats to that extent on a whim. There were clearly problems that went far beyond willpower.Kim Ayreshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02656677501116622953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-11744077818368525432007-08-07T20:55:00.000+01:002007-08-07T20:55:00.000+01:00Shebah, all I can do is refer you back to my post,...Shebah, all I can do is refer you back to my post, <A HRES="http://kimayres.blogspot.com/2007/07/difference-between-habit-and-addiction.html">The Difference Between Habit and Addiction</A>.<BR/><BR/>Obesity is not an illness, but for some people, obesity is an outward manifestation of an illness.<BR/><BR/>If someone has a problem relationship with food then they have a problem. You cannot compare it to someone who doesn't have a problem.<BR/><BR/>It's like comparing an alcoholic with a non alcoholic. If you place a beer in front of both of them, the internal battles that need to be fought in order not to drink it will be very different for each. <BR/><BR/>For the non-alcoholic to call the alcoholic greedy and weak willed just because they give into the drink is to completely and utterly fail to understand what is going on. <BR/><BR/>I am not an alcoholic. Sometimes I want a beer, but for me to walk away from one is no big deal. For an alcoholic it is a big deal. Just because it is easy for me does not mean it is easy for him or her.<BR/><BR/>This doesn't mean an alcoholic can't find a way over their addiction if they are motivated and focused enough, but it will be a lifetime battle and no one should accuse them of just making easy excuses when there are times that they struggle like hell.<BR/><BR/>I firmly believe that people can conquer their addictions if they want to enough, but I don't for a single moment believe it to be simple, easy or straightforward.<BR/><BR/>But simply calling someone a glutton is ignorant and insulting and shows an appalling lack of insight and empathy into the problems and difficulties they could be facing.<BR/><BR/>Yes, some people just have bad habits and don't know any better. Fine, educate them. But don't assume that everyone is just suffering from bad habits. Go back and read <A HRES="http://kimayres.blogspot.com/2007/07/difference-between-habit-and-addiction.html">The Difference Between Habit and Addiction</A> again.Kim Ayreshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02656677501116622953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-673836332671367882007-08-07T20:38:00.000+01:002007-08-07T20:38:00.000+01:00Mom the hipple and Teresa, welcome to my ramblings...Mom the hipple and Teresa, welcome to my ramblings and thank you for taking the time to comment.Kim Ayreshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02656677501116622953noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-15722832868446841492007-08-07T18:27:00.000+01:002007-08-07T18:27:00.000+01:00Wow. I know I should be better about what I eat a...Wow. I know I should be better about what I eat and how I take care of myself. My mother's adult-onset diabetes certainly shortened her life and it will certainly come knocking on my door if I don't do something.<BR/><BR/>I like to eat and I often eat too much. I pay for it in my appearance and lack of motivation in going to the gym. Just this weekend, I fulfilled an oft-repeated mantra, "Eat til your miserable."<BR/><BR/>Kim, I really admire your accomplishments and your resolve in managing to deal with your issues. Regardless of what any of us say here, you are to be commended and serve as a model for all of us to follow.<BR/><BR/>Be strong and be well.Brave Astronauthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13893671129001583065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-87059361434102268542007-08-07T18:23:00.000+01:002007-08-07T18:23:00.000+01:00I think that is an indication of why, sometimes, a...I think that is an indication of why, sometimes, a person who has lost a lot of weight carries on past the point of looking good and becomes too thin. It's too hard to have just one scone or chocolate or a small piece of cheese. It's safer to keep dieting and gives more of a sense of purpose.Zhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00822383355869390919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-26329212197583348772007-08-07T18:16:00.000+01:002007-08-07T18:16:00.000+01:00What a difficult place to me in. A I sure know ho...What a difficult place to me in. A I sure know how you feel. I think remembering your vulnerability is keeping you relatively safe from the regain. You haven't lose the respect for your old adversary that you need to maintain your control over it. Oh to be one of those naturally thin people, like my daughter-in-law who'll eat a third of a rich dessert and then push it away.ArleneWKWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06442303488097811495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-46800476012508027822007-08-07T16:31:00.000+01:002007-08-07T16:31:00.000+01:00Most people Mary don't have a metabolism that allo...Most people Mary don't have a metabolism that allows them to eat what they like, in fact I'd wager very few people have it. Most people have to watch what they eat, especially as they age. So if you're one of the lucky eat waht you like brigade good luck to you, but the rest of us, fat and fit a like have to be careful.fatmammycathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12307960277363243051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15322620.post-51592635157691798122007-08-07T16:28:00.000+01:002007-08-07T16:28:00.000+01:00Or I could just be a jerk and an arsehole, that's ...Or I could just be a jerk and an arsehole, that's also a possibility.fatmammycathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12307960277363243051noreply@blogger.com